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diff --git a/ap_debian/2020-08-debconf-pad.txt b/ap_debian/2020-08-debconf-pad.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000..6d7683c --- /dev/null +++ b/ap_debian/2020-08-debconf-pad.txt @@ -0,0 +1,116 @@ +Forwards to a Federated Future + +links from slide: + - https://locusmag.com/2018/07/cory-doctorow-zucks-empire-of-oily-rags/ + - https://activitypub.rocks/ + +Q; What do the federated systems provide that is equivalent ot the user-oriented benefits of algorithmic analysis, provision of content perceived as relevant? Can they compete without that convenience? How? + +I don't think that there is anything *ready* that provides that at the moment: people are mostly being encouraged to follow people (and hashtags) that provide that relevant content, but people on the federated social tend to be wary of algorithmic analysis because of the huge negative effects. +I've heard people interested in having something like that, but I don't know of any actual project. + +Q: Can we substitute user intention and co-operation for algorithms? Can we create our own algorithms that embody our values rather than those of profit-oriented organizations, in a way analogous to the way Copyleft subverts copyright? + +I think that at the moment what we're using is the old approach that came before algorithms, basically people sharing what they like and using word of mouth to discover new things. +If somebody wants to try something new, I think that the fediverse can provide a space where it can be done. +We could create that, making a fediverse client that sorts by favs and not coronologically, for example + +Q: What can we learn, if anything, from social media that haven't been displaced by Facebook, etc, such as well-established bullietien boards and blogs? - There is a saying going on the net "I remember when the internet was not 5 websites showing screenshots of each other". When you implement activitypub, even as "Facebook , etc", you could then share facebook statues, tweets, toots, or messages or videos across platforms, without taking a screenshot. + +Guy Sheffer, you seem to have erased who wrote what...at about 16:53. Copy the text then undo? +If I did I am sorry, let me look at the history and see if there is something to restore from there +Longest text I can recover: + Q: What can we learn, if anything, from social media that haven't been displaced by Facebook, etc, such as well-established bullietien boards and blogs? - There is a saying going on the net "I remember when the internet was not 5 websites showing screenshots of each other". When you implement activitypub, even as "Facebook , etc", you could then share facebook statues, tweets, toots, or messages or videos across platforms, without taking a screenshot. + +Specifically for the sharing part, most people on the fediverse do share links rather than screenshots - You can share an "announce" activity (share, boost): https://www.w3.org/TR/activitypub/ +(7.11 Announce Activity (sharing) section). Thats much more integreted than a link. +So you are actually sharing the status over the protocol + + +Q: Would federated groups be an echo chamber in the end ? Like, a mastodon instance where only same ideology related people group together, they don't see other views + +yes, that risk is present, but at least there is going to be a choice: one can be on an instance with just related people that blocks everything else, or they can be on an instance where there are less blocks and they can get access to people with different views. +It isn't easy to do that, but mostly because people do naturally tend to follow other people with similar ideas, even when not encouraged to do that by external suggestions. + +ITP & RFP +https://bugs.debian.org/859741 mastodon +https://bugs.debian.org/895050 pleroma +https://bugs.debian.org/651944 friendica +https://bugs.debian.org/950821 peertube + +https://pleroma.social/ sound like a "lightweight" door to the fediverse. +https://blog.soykaf.com/post/what-is-pleroma/ (which is linked to from the startpage) points to https://i2p.rocks/blog/the-magical-world-of-pleroma-setting-up-your-instance.html (good title), but that has a "This guide is out of date, use the official docs." notice and clicking on that link leads to an error page (I hate it when that happens.) :-( + +Maybe someone would be interested in Epicyon (https://epicyon.net/). It's written in Python and all the dependencies are packaged already. It could benefit from review of the code, especially crypto parts, and more users/contributors. + +Q: What scale of hardware is required for a ~100 user instance? + +A: it depends on the platform (and I only have experience with friendica ~15 users, for which a cheap VPS is enough) +For each platform, though Mastodon in particular. ty for the info about Friendica. + +Q: One place that federated solutions have taken off is in academia, with authentication protocols like SAML (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_Assertion_Markup_Language). How do or might they fit in to the Fediverse? +A: It still seems unclear how traditional federated "single-sign-on" like SAML and LDAP approaches fit in. Some related ideas and questions are at https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/single-sign-on-for-fediverse/712 + +Q: Having Debian provide debian.social seems to fill a needed gap, and that's great. However, a question: What about the nontrivial storage needs for such demanding platforms as peertube? Having a couple of users upload some fvideos is fine, but... Will it cope with the up-to-1000 users that are currently Debian citizens providing material/stuff? Or is it supposed not to be an forever-archive for our videos? + +A: There are considerations and discussions about that. We currently have a limit on per user basis, and with that we should be fine for the time being and will iterate over that after we see more stats on development. Storage of users is though a much smaller concern when you think about the amount of recorded material from Debian conferences since 2005. + +Q: When will we be able to use a salsa identity to be social across the various solutions here? E.g. to follow people on Mastodon and Pleroma? Or is that not likely? +A: yes anything that implements activitypub +Followup: which services under consideration have not yet implemented ActivityPub? +Followup A: You can see those marked in the wiki + +Q: How to get regular people to use the Fediverse services instead of Twitter/facebook/Instagram? +and make them care that the bigger services sell their information? + +A: The first part is easier: just tell them that they have to be on the federated network to see your cat pictures. The second involves talking with them and trying to educate them on the problem in a way that reaches them, which is a hard social problem with no technical solutions :) + +Q: is it possible for Debian folks to set up accounts for their friends&family on debian.social servers? (I cannot currently justify the effort of setting up my own server, becuase I'm anti-social so don't have anyone to talk to ;-) but I have children, so at some point need to give them something !facebook/twitter) + +A: There are a lot of servers on the fediverse which offer registration. I can understand why you would want to have your family in the same space, but we require accounts in salsa for people to join services on debian.social + +Q: any opinions on Diaspora*? + +A: At the moment what limits Diaspora* most is that it doesn't speak activitypub, so it isn't federating with the servers where most users are + +Q: Sustainability of individual instances of services can be a challenge. What happens If the Mastodon server I chose initially happens to go out of date or loses support from its admins, is there a way to link it seamlessly to a new one, or "forward" connections to a new instance or the like? When links to old posts die, that can cause significant disruption. + +A: It depends on the platform, but usually there is a way to download your posts and/or contact lists and reupload them to a different instance (of the same platform); it isn't always seamlessly, but it is improving. + +Q: Is Matrix federation planned? +A: It seems that Matrix is listed on the Debian.Social wiki page as https://matrix.debian.social/ with "beta/testing" status, but also with an "x" under the "Fediverse" column which I don't understand. +The beta/testing status means that debian.social supports it to that extend. The x under Fediverse means that Matrix doesn't federate via ActivityPub. If federation for Matrix is planned we aren't aware of that and it is something that has to happen upstream wise. + +Q: Is there provision in any of the systems of automated, emergent local and topic specialised groupings for non-technical users? Running our own systems makes them something of an elite resource. OTOH, low barriers without soft security mean gaming and abuse happen. + +A: Most projects provide servers that accept accounts from new users, e.g. https://joinmastodon.org/ +Security is provided by the fact that those servers have moderators that will block people who don't respect the instance rules (as they are found). + +Q: is there a way to do access-control across domains? E.g. if I want to share my private video with a few people who are spread across various instances of the fediverse, and I want to specifically enable viewing by each individual? + +A: At least on mastodon and friendica you can select a list of accounts that will be able to see your post, and that list can have people from any instance. I believe that they have to be among the people that follow you (or possibly the people you are following). + +BTW, if there is interest in a non-recorded fediverse BoF one could be arranged: add your name here if you are? (or ping me — valhalla — on IRC) + + + +Detect languageAfrikaansAlbanianAmharicArabicArmenianAzerbaijaniBasqueBelarusianBengaliBosnianBulgarianCatalanCebuanoChichewaChinese (Simplified)Chinese (Traditional)CorsicanCroatianCzechDanishDutchEnglishEsperantoEstonianFilipinoFinnishFrenchFrisianGalicianGeorgianGermanGreekGujaratiHaitian CreoleHausaHawaiianHebrewHindiHmongHungarianIcelandicIgboIndonesianIrishItalianJapaneseJavaneseKannadaKazakhKhmerKoreanKurdishKyrgyzLaoLatinLatvianLithuanianLuxembourgishMacedonianMalagasyMalayMalayalamMalteseMaoriMarathiMongolianMyanmar (Burmese)NepaliNorwegianPashtoPersianPolishPortuguesePunjabiRomanianRussianSamoanScots GaelicSerbianSesothoShonaSindhiSinhalaSlovakSlovenianSomaliSpanishSundaneseSwahiliSwedishTajikTamilTeluguThaiTurkishUkrainianUrduUzbekVietnameseWelshXhosaYiddishYorubaZulu +AfrikaansAlbanianAmharicArabicArmenianAzerbaijaniBasqueBelarusianBengaliBosnianBulgarianCatalanCebuanoChichewaChinese (Simplified)Chinese (Traditional)CorsicanCroatianCzechDanishDutchEnglishEsperantoEstonianFilipinoFinnishFrenchFrisianGalicianGeorgianGermanGreekGujaratiHaitian CreoleHausaHawaiianHebrewHindiHmongHungarianIcelandicIgboIndonesianIrishItalianJapaneseJavaneseKannadaKazakhKhmerKoreanKurdishKyrgyzLaoLatinLatvianLithuanianLuxembourgishMacedonianMalagasyMalayMalayalamMalteseMaoriMarathiMongolianMyanmar (Burmese)NepaliNorwegianPashtoPersianPolishPortuguesePunjabiRomanianRussianSamoanScots GaelicSerbianSesothoShonaSindhiSinhalaSlovakSlovenianSomaliSpanishSundaneseSwahiliSwedishTajikTamilTeluguThaiTurkishUkrainianUrduUzbekVietnameseWelshXhosaYiddishYorubaZulu +Text-to-speech function is limited to 200 characters +Options : History : Feedback : DonateClose +G +M +T +Y +Detect languageAfrikaansAlbanianAmharicArabicArmenianAzerbaijaniBasqueBelarusianBengaliBosnianBulgarianCatalanCebuanoChichewaChinese (Simplified)Chinese (Traditional)CorsicanCroatianCzechDanishDutchEnglishEsperantoEstonianFilipinoFinnishFrenchFrisianGalicianGeorgianGermanGreekGujaratiHaitian CreoleHausaHawaiianHebrewHindiHmongHungarianIcelandicIgboIndonesianIrishItalianJapaneseJavaneseKannadaKazakhKhmerKoreanKurdishKyrgyzLaoLatinLatvianLithuanianLuxembourgishMacedonianMalagasyMalayMalayalamMalteseMaoriMarathiMongolianMyanmar (Burmese)NepaliNorwegianPashtoPersianPolishPortuguesePunjabiRomanianRussianSamoanScots GaelicSerbianSesothoShonaSindhiSinhalaSlovakSlovenianSomaliSpanishSundaneseSwahiliSwedishTajikTamilTeluguThaiTurkishUkrainianUrduUzbekVietnameseWelshXhosaYiddishYorubaZulu +AfrikaansAlbanianAmharicArabicArmenianAzerbaijaniBasqueBelarusianBengaliBosnianBulgarianCatalanCebuanoChichewaChinese (Simplified)Chinese (Traditional)CorsicanCroatianCzechDanishDutchEnglishEsperantoEstonianFilipinoFinnishFrenchFrisianGalicianGeorgianGermanGreekGujaratiHaitian CreoleHausaHawaiianHebrewHindiHmongHungarianIcelandicIgboIndonesianIrishItalianJapaneseJavaneseKannadaKazakhKhmerKoreanKurdishKyrgyzLaoLatinLatvianLithuanianLuxembourgishMacedonianMalagasyMalayMalayalamMalteseMaoriMarathiMongolianMyanmar (Burmese)NepaliNorwegianPashtoPersianPolishPortuguesePunjabiRomanianRussianSamoanScots GaelicSerbianSesothoShonaSindhiSinhalaSlovakSlovenianSomaliSpanishSundaneseSwahiliSwedishTajikTamilTeluguThaiTurkishUkrainianUrduUzbekVietnameseWelshXhosaYiddishYorubaZulu +Text-to-speech function is limited to 200 characters +Options : History : Feedback : DonateClose +G +M +T +Y +Detect languageAfrikaansAlbanianAmharicArabicArmenianAzerbaijaniBasqueBelarusianBengaliBosnianBulgarianCatalanCebuanoChichewaChinese (Simplified)Chinese (Traditional)CorsicanCroatianCzechDanishDutchEnglishEsperantoEstonianFilipinoFinnishFrenchFrisianGalicianGeorgianGermanGreekGujaratiHaitian CreoleHausaHawaiianHebrewHindiHmongHungarianIcelandicIgboIndonesianIrishItalianJapaneseJavaneseKannadaKazakhKhmerKoreanKurdishKyrgyzLaoLatinLatvianLithuanianLuxembourgishMacedonianMalagasyMalayMalayalamMalteseMaoriMarathiMongolianMyanmar (Burmese)NepaliNorwegianPashtoPersianPolishPortuguesePunjabiRomanianRussianSamoanScots GaelicSerbianSesothoShonaSindhiSinhalaSlovakSlovenianSomaliSpanishSundaneseSwahiliSwedishTajikTamilTeluguThaiTurkishUkrainianUrduUzbekVietnameseWelshXhosaYiddishYorubaZulu +AfrikaansAlbanianAmharicArabicArmenianAzerbaijaniBasqueBelarusianBengaliBosnianBulgarianCatalanCebuanoChichewaChinese (Simplified)Chinese (Traditional)CorsicanCroatianCzechDanishDutchEnglishEsperantoEstonianFilipinoFinnishFrenchFrisianGalicianGeorgianGermanGreekGujaratiHaitian CreoleHausaHawaiianHebrewHindiHmongHungarianIcelandicIgboIndonesianIrishItalianJapaneseJavaneseKannadaKazakhKhmerKoreanKurdishKyrgyzLaoLatinLatvianLithuanianLuxembourgishMacedonianMalagasyMalayMalayalamMalteseMaoriMarathiMongolianMyanmar (Burmese)NepaliNorwegianPashtoPersianPolishPortuguesePunjabiRomanianRussianSamoanScots GaelicSerbianSesothoShonaSindhiSinhalaSlovakSlovenianSomaliSpanishSundaneseSwahiliSwedishTajikTamilTeluguThaiTurkishUkrainianUrduUzbekVietnameseWelshXhosaYiddishYorubaZulu +Text-to-speech function is limited to 200 characters +Options : History : Feedback : DonateClose |